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New Stage 2 File
http://www.thecfl.us/forum/viewtopic.php?t=406		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  Passacaglia [ Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:32 am ]
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[quoteae498f2] they all point to abusing the limits of the game...[/quoteae498f2]

Abusing? If people were so worried about these limits being abused, why wasn't there a rule in place for this? Every other league I'm in has had these rules in place before we've even started staff hiring. THAT's what common sense points to. Common sense does NOT point to setting no limits -- intentionally -- then expecting teams to keep their bids within a certain range.
Author:  Raven Hawk [ Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:46 am ]
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Will this impede Thul's ability to offer signing bonuses during the free agency period. If it does, I have no problem with it. If the coaching salaries come from a vast and infinite pool of wealth that you can exploit, I have a problem with it.

There has to be some sort of cash flow penalty for doing this.
Author:  Thul [ Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:23 am ]
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I was going to sleep on this one more night, but I think it's probably best to just announce my resignation from the Sacramento Dragons now.

While there are some that back my position, there are an equal amount (including the league commissioner) who feel I crossed some line of owner etiquette and fair play. That was exactly the reason why I asked in the first place, because I didn't want to do that.

I don't want to be the source of hard feelings. I respect and play with many of you in other leagues and I hope to continue to do so in the future.

I contemplated ways to "make it right" in the eyes of those who think I've done harm. I've offered to rebid in a limit-system, toss my stage 3 export, and considered offering draft picks as "compensation" to the teams who lost their coaches to me.

However, doing that would mean admitting that I abused the system, and I don't think I have. I was outbid initially on 2/3 coaches, analyzed the increment increases, and then countered with a competitive offer. The offers are extremely high, but given the no-limit structure and the bid increments, that was inevitable.

Thank you all for a good season and I wish you all the best (except for Santa Cruz :wink: Someone beat them for me!)
Author:  dberner30 [ Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:06 am ]
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I agree but it isnt Thul's fault. It is a system failure overall. As he pointed out he just bid what he thought he needed to beat the other guys who were bidding unreasonable amounts. I agree that you got screwed. Welcome to the club. Im in the midst of taking it too. Again, we either start over with staff hiring or just move on and fix it next year.
Author:  Taco [ Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:14 am ]
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This is really a shame. Thul didn't do anything wrong to start with and then gave very good explanations about why his actions didn't violate any rules or even the "common sense" guidelines that are questionable anyway.

I think we need some stronger leadership in this league. While I appreciate GE's efforts as commissioner, maybe some of us can help out to finally write up some rules. I volunteer to help out. Would anyone else be interested in taking on this responsibility? Also, for those in other leagues, what sort of rules do those leagues have in place? Not just on the subject of staff hiring, but in all phases of the league...
Author:  GoldenEagle [ Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:52 am ]
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No other leagues have been establsihed as long as we had. We had no problem with this last year, and we had more active owners at this point last season than we did now.

Also I agree with Wade here. I am questioning the fairness of the game. This would never happen in real football. Most of the woners in this league follow the general guidelines. I did not feel we needed any rules in place becuase of last season. I was obviously wrong. I feel liek giving my owners freedom. I do not want alot of rules weighing down the league. But, as we all now now, rules will have to be put in place.
Author:  dberner30 [ Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:50 pm ]
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I would hope Thul will reconsider. The difficulty here is he took the action he took to compensate for other team owner bids that were superior to his. Those bids were equally too high. I am willing to move on and allow the moves to take place with rules for next year. If it makes things better for the league and all concerned then lets just set a new sked and rerun the hiring stages with a staff/scout hiring cap amount. Thul asked. He acted rationally based on what he saw happening in stage 1. I was quick to take out my frustration on him. Thul is not a bad actor. He is caught in a vaccum on this one. Thul, please return to Suckremento. GE lets consider re-running.

I will help in any way needed with rules etc if we feel a constitution type document is needed. I would say the 7.5m offer before Thul was borderline abusive. Without a cap there is no check and balance in this context because profitability means nothing in MP to my knowledge.
Author:  3ric [ Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:22 pm ]
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Thul, please do reconsider. I don't want to see you leave.
Author:  wademoore [ Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:51 am ]
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By no means did I want Thul to leave. I know he asked about rules ahead of time, but I just wanted it recognized that just because there are no rules it does not mean we should just go crazy and do what we want. Again to use the IHOF example, someone hired 140 people for training camp. There was no rule against it, but it obviously breaks common fairness.

Anyways. There does need to be a rule in place for next year at the minimum it would seem. Thul is not the only one guilty here imo, but whoever put in the 7.5 mil also is guilty .... so apparently the gentleman's rule is not enough around here anymore.
Author:  fantastic flying froggies [ Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:40 am ]
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Come back Thul, you [i3ca094c]know [/i3ca094c]you want to!
Author:  wademoore [ Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:53 am ]
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Believe it or not, I would also like Thul to come back.

I am a supporter of forgive and forget.
Author:  Joe [ Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:33 am ]
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Yeah, come back Thul. You know you have some more games to lose to Santa Cruz!
Author:  Passacaglia [ Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:20 am ]
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I'm also going to use this thread as my resignation. I'm about to get really busy soon, with student teaching coming up, and now that I'm in 3 leagues, it's a bit too much to handle. I'd been thinking of dropping one for a while now, but it was hard to decide which. As I saw it, the two main reasons I've stayed in this league were that Thul is in it with me, and I think Boston will be a much improved team in the upcoming year, from last year.

However, with Thul out, and since he's out due to unfairness to him, I'm out too. No hard feelings from me -- I'll check the boards every once in a while, too, to check up on you guys!
Author:  wademoore [ Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:26 am ]
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[quote01347ae="Passacaglia"]I'm also going to use this thread as my resignation. I'm about to get really busy soon, with student teaching coming up, and now that I'm in 3 leagues, it's a bit too much to handle. I'd been thinking of dropping one for a while now, but it was hard to decide which. As I saw it, the two main reasons I've stayed in this league were that Thul is in it with me, and I think Boston will be a much improved team in the upcoming year, from last year.

However, with Thul out, and since he's out due to unfairness to him, I'm out too. No hard feelings from me -- I'll check the boards every once in a while, too, to check up on you guys![/quote01347ae]

unfairness to him... hrmmm.....
Author:  GoldenEagle [ Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:00 am ]
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[quoteafce84f="Passacaglia"]However, with Thul out, and since he's out due to unfairness to him, I'm out too. No hard feelings from me -- I'll check the boards every once in a while, too, to check up on you guys![/quoteafce84f]

How the hell was the league unfair to Thul? If your going to bring this up, you better have some evidence. We let him keep his coaches without any punishment. I think he came out of the deal in good shape.

I will being the recruitment for a new owner as soon as possible.
Author:  Joe [ Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:26 am ]
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how many vacancies do we have now?
Author:  3ric [ Wed Aug 25, 2004 1:39 pm ]
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Five, I think. Sovstar, Thul and Passa to go with the vacancies for Boise and Anchorage.
Author:  fantastic flying froggies [ Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:50 am ]
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[quote7205018="3ric"]Five, I think. Sovstar, Thul and Passa to go with the vacancies for Boise and Anchorage.[/quote7205018]

Eight actually. See this thread http://www.thecfl.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=394
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